Curse

Karate Jesus · May 16, 2010, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

There not the only thing added, check out the update thread it has screen shots of the weapons.

Still not added yet, though. We still don't have these things.

shoyon456 · May 16, 2010, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

Alright I was under the impression that it was mutually exclusive and the z-axis being added was the reason click to move was being removed for features like swimming and underwater exploration in gw2.
Thanks for the heads up on the quote mistake.

This was my original question nearly 3 years ago. Because Anet seemed to imply that making a z-axis eliminated CTM, yet I've seen that PWI and WoW both have swimming, jumping, flying AND CTM.

@Theocrat:
The quote is actually old, its from the May 2007 PCGamer article Anet put out to officially announce work on GW2. However, since there has been no comment to either clarify or negate that press release yet gameplay info is up, I think it may still be the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by May 2007 PC Gamer

CHARACTER CONTROLS AND ENVIRONMENT
Though we weren't able to to get too many details from ArenaNet about GW2's retooled control scheme, we do know the click-to-move system will be left behind

EDIT:
Oh, I see now they're putting in a war horn con to hint at their pressence in GW2. Why did they make a freaking shining blade scythe/spear if they wont be in GW2? Yes, I am bitter at you Anet.

Ninja Ninja · May 16, 2010, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

This was my original question nearly 3 years ago. Because Anet seemed to imply that making a z-axis eliminated CTM, yet I've seen that PWI and WoW both have swimming, jumping, flying AND CTM.

Good so I wasn't the only one lol.

majoho · May 16, 2010, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primary Assassin

This isn't a Diablo forum so you can search for that yourself.

Geee, thanks.

I know this isn't a diablo site but you didn't have to write an essay on it just say what Blizzard did that was so great.

If it is indeed just patch 1.13 you are referring to I would have to say that that's just sad.

R_Frost · May 16, 2010, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

they are doing stuff in gw1... war in kryta ring a bell???

i would of rather seen anything merging GW1 to GW2 implemented in a bonus mission type update not changing areas to make use of map space.

on another topic, with the power creep type updates we have been getting as a solution to the real problems, and the lack of GW1 support due to the constantly used excuse we dont have the resources due to GW2, Anet may as well un-nerf skills and just let it be a free for all til GW2. whats it going to hurt? not much more damage can be done to the game. to fix whats currently wrong, its either means taking resources away from an already way delayed GW2, or just coming clean with the community and saying "hey we are sorry, we screwed up, and to fix the issues we sould of dealt with over the last 2-3 years would just mean delaying GW2 more. we cant fix everything but are doing our best to make sure whats wrong with GW1 wont happen in GW2."

Ninja Ninja · May 16, 2010, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

Because Anet seemed to imply that making a z-axis eliminated CTM, yet I've seen that PWI and WoW both have swimming, jumping, flying AND CTM.

Yeah I know those games have swimming but I don't think they have it in detail as much as GW2, they talk about it in past interviews (forgot source) that there will be a consumable which will allow you breath under water and exploration of the guild wars world is going to double because of under water exploration, they also said you will be able to fight under water. Also in recent news on guildwars2.com they talk about content like finding an entrance to a secret cave deep at the bottom of the ocean so that leads me to believe there's going to be a lot of detail to it, plus since click to move is like grabbing the ground to move while free floating in water you have nothing to grab on to.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 16, 2010, 04:26 AM // 04:26

*Looks at reply to old post*

*Looks through thread*

Okay, seems as though most of the issue centres around bots. For those complaining about them in the current game, as someone said in a previous post: Take it to the other thread. For those worried about them in GW2, A) The game isnt out yet, we dont know how the engine and client runs, therefore we cant comment on the bot situation, and B) Show me a game without bots. Yeah, there are preventative measures that have come out since GW came out, but the Live Team hasnt been the same since the release of Eye of the North due to the concentration on Guild Wars 2.

But when it comes down to it, as I have said and others have as well, Guild Wars 2 will be a different beast compared to Guild Wars. Someone said Apples and Oranges before, the better analogy would be Guild Wars is the Apple, GW2 is the genetically modified mutant cousin of that Apple. I would rather Anet focus on making that Apple the best that it can be rather than on trying to cut the rot out of the normal one that has fallen on the ground.

I doubt Anet would lose many customers (notice I said Anet, and not NCSoft), because even the most jaded ex-player will probably have a look at the game, and they will probably gain more because of the fact they dont have subscriptions.

Ninja Ninja · May 16, 2010, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

*Looks at reply to old post*

*Looks through thread*

Okay, seems as though most of the issue centres around bots. For those complaining about them in the current game, as someone said in a previous post: Take it to the other thread. For those worried about them in GW2, A) The game isnt out yet, we dont know how the engine and client runs, therefore we cant comment on the bot situation, and B) Show me a game without bots. Yeah, there are preventative measures that have come out since GW came out, but the Live Team hasnt been the same since the release of Eye of the North due to the concentration on Guild Wars 2.

But when it comes down to it, as I have said and others have as well, Guild Wars 2 will be a different beast compared to Guild Wars. Someone said Apples and Oranges before, the better analogy would be Guild Wars is the Apple, GW2 is the genetically modified mutant cousin of that Apple. I would rather Anet focus on making that Apple the best that it can be rather than on trying to cut the rot out of the normal one that has fallen on the ground.

Is it too much to ask for you to post your own opinion instead of making a collection of comments I've already responded to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

I doubt Anet would lose many customers (notice I said Anet, and not NCSoft), because even the most jaded ex-player will probably have a look at the game, and they will probably gain more because of the fact they dont have subscriptions.

You know that's why they invented trials right?

*lemming* · May 16, 2010, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Okay, seems as though most of the issue centres around bots. For those complaining about them in the current game, as someone said in a previous post: Take it to the other thread. For those worried about them in GW2, A) The game isnt out yet, we dont know how the engine and client runs, therefore we cant comment on the bot situation, and B) Show me a game without bots. Yeah, there are preventative measures that have come out since GW came out, but the Live Team hasnt been the same since the release of Eye of the North due to the concentration on Guild Wars 2.

You don't know how big the scale of the problem is if you can make a serious post like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

I doubt Anet would lose many customers (notice I said Anet, and not NCSoft), because even the most jaded ex-player will probably have a look at the game, and they will probably gain more because of the fact they dont have subscriptions.

Companies should be worried about negative PR.

Faer · May 16, 2010, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

@Theocrat:

I honestly don't know why you are addressing me with that. You seem to be yet another person who has misunderstood my posts. I won't hold it against you though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

You know that's why they invented trials right?

Solution: GW2 will do the same to trials as it did to CTM. WAKKA WAKKA

(And 2008 Beta Testing)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Companies should be worried about negative PR.

They should be, yeah. Shame ArenaNet has always been a bit lacking in the PR department.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 16, 2010, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

Is it too much to ask for you to post your own opinion instead of making a collection of comments I've already responded to?

Um, wow. I typed out all that, and it came from my head... I guess it is my opinion... Maybe I shouldnt have spent those hours away from the comp, doing something else, just so I could get it in first....

/sarcasm

Actually, yes, it is my opinion. Another piece of my opinion: There is already a thread dedicated to getting an answer to the bot problem in GW1, don't hijack this one.

But, and I will admit I am sounding like a broken record, but that is maybe because I am just saying what Anet themselves said when they started making GW2: They have gone back to scratch and built Guild Wars 2 from the ground up, including the engine. Translation: It is a whole different beast to GW1 and they would have learnt from their mistakes the first time around, including dealing with bots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

You know that's why they invented trials right?

Duh, but that doesnt mean they aren't going to go out and buy it anyway. Hell, I didn't even use a trial before purchasing Guild Wars. That isnt mentioning the fact that with what Anet have planned for the game I would say quite a number of those trials will translate to purchases

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

You don't know how big the scale of the problem is if you can make a serious post like that.

Uh, I do, just that there is a whole thread over here dedicated to that, And given A) As said the game is being built from scratch, and B) It will have the full force of Anet behind it, not just a handful like the current game, it is a bit early to be worrying about the number of botters in GW2. But looking at things realistically, how bad was the botting before the SF nerf? How bad was it before EotN came out? I am not trying to swat your concerns away, I am trying to look at the realistic picture. Perhaps my faith is mislaid in that GW2 will be a good game, but getting so close to release (7-10 months to me is close) I would rather they concentrate on making GW2 so this kinda thing wont happen, or has a minimal chance of happening, rather than pull resources to work on a game which, I hate to say it as a GW fan, is on borrowed time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Companies should be worried about negative PR.

If companies were worried about negative PR from gamers a lot of companies would be out of business. Hell, a lot of companies who are the targets of the "negative PR" are still in business. By rights, we shouldn't even be able to play Guild Wars because NCSoft has gone bust, or at least Anet being absorbed into another company, with the negative PR they have gotten over support, Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, *insert defunct game here*, etc.

shoyon456 · May 16, 2010, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theocrat

I honestly don't know why you are addressing me with that. You seem to be yet another person who has misunderstood my posts. I won't hold it against you though.

Because:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theocrat

Then if you would be so kind as to post a source...

So I honestly don't know why you don't undertand since I took the five minutes to find the source you wanted. Just accept it and move on. You seem to be yet another person lost in their own prideful hype to the point that they forgot what they had even said. I won't hold it against you though, sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

Yeah I know those games have swimming but I don't think they have it in detail as much as GW2, they talk about it in past interviews (forgot source) that there will be a consumable which will allow you breath under water and exploration of the guild wars world is going to double because of under water exploration, they also said you will be able to fight under water.

"Detail" has nothing to do with it. PWI has underwater fighting and swimming, I don't know whether WoW does or not because I've never personally played it, but I'd assume so. The fact that there will be underground tunnels and a consumable are not features of a z-axis, they are design features that are independent of whether or not the game has a z-axis. WoW and PWI both have swimming and flying and CTM. This indicates that a z-axis regardless of the specific designs does not eliminate CTM on its' own. Why Anet chose to dump CTM when it was unnecessary is beyond me. They probably just figured it would create a better play experience, although I happen to disagree.

*lemming* · May 16, 2010, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Uh, I do, just that there is a whole thread over here dedicated to that, And given A) As said the game is being built from scratch, and B) It will have the full force of Anet behind it, not just a handful like the current game, it is a bit early to be worrying about the number of botters in GW2. But looking at things realistically, how bad was the botting before the SF nerf? How bad was it before EotN came out? I am not trying to swat your concerns away, I am trying to look at the realistic picture. Perhaps my faith is mislaid in that GW2 will be a good game, but getting so close to release (7-10 months to me is close) I would rather they concentrate on making GW2 so this kinda thing wont happen, or has a minimal chance of happening, rather than pull resources to work on a game which, I hate to say it as a GW fan, is on borrowed time.

Pardon me for my errant choice of vocabulary. I should have said that you don't understand the magnitude of the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

If companies were worried about negative PR from gamers a lot of companies would be out of business. Hell, a lot of companies who are the targets of the "negative PR" are still in business. By rights, we shouldn't even be able to play Guild Wars because NCSoft has gone bust, or at least Anet being absorbed into another company, with the negative PR they have gotten over support, Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, *insert defunct game here*, etc.

There's a difference between a game being bad and a supposedly competitive game being rife with cheating.

fireflyry · May 16, 2010, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

Man every time I see you post its utter crap

Stellar rebuttal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Ninja

It took me 2 months to get all the pve titles for my main so how exactly are there people doing pve for 5 years?

Gee I don't know...maybe there's players out there that just play for fun?

Your assuming your definition and motivation to play is the generic norm.Max the titles and HoM....game over....QQ about it.

Not everyone thinks or plays this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

If companies were worried about negative PR from gamers a lot of companies would be out of business.

Agreed.

I think the topic is highly interesting and there have been some great posts.What irks me is the inability for many Guru posters to realise that they are a tiny minority of the player base.

It seems dogma to many that having a few disgruntled players here voice there dissatisfaction with GW will lead to Anet and GW2 self-combustion.

Seriously.We are talking about a few thousand people, if that.

Regina must have giggle fits over some of the fantastical influence some players think they have on the future of Anet.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 16, 2010, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Pardon me for my errant choice of vocabulary. I should have said that you don't understand the magnitude of the problem.

Wording has lost you again, my friend. I do understand the magnitude of the problem. I guess I am looking at things differently to you. You are looking at what is currently in-game and believe it will translate over to the new game. I am looking at the new game where there is a good chance they have learnt from the past and have worked on their not being as many bugs (to say none is to dream with any program). Mayhaps they might bring some people over to fix GW1 towards the time of or after the release of GW2, and some will cry 'too little too late' but at the moment I would rather their force be spent on eliminating V.1's problems in V.2

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

There's a difference between a game being bad and a supposedly competitive game being rife with cheating.

Aion is still going, isnt it? there are quite a few competitive F2P games out there which are rife with bots out there that are surprisingly still going. Would I like to see them address the problems with GW1? sure, but I know they have only limited resources working on this game and they are working heavily on GW2 and I accept that, but that is just me.

All I can say is lets hope they dont need to make a GW3. I am normally on Anet's side cause recent botting issues aside they made a pretty good game for 2 1/2 years, but I can tell if they did need to upgrade I can foresee similar problems with GW2 if they did. Well not so much the same, as the Live Team would probably actually be bigger, and hopefully the client stronger, but yeah they would still reduce the workforce so they can work on the new game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Agreed.

I think the topic is highly interesting and there have been some great posts.What irks me is the inability for many Guru posters to realise that they are a tiny minority of the player base.

It seems dogma to many that having a few disgruntled players here voice there dissatisfaction with GW will lead to Anet and GW2 self-combustion.

Seriously.We are talking about a few thousand people, if that.

Regina must have giggle fits over some of the fantastical influence some players think they have on the future of Anet.

Now this is exactly where I am coming from as far as my responses about PR goes. For every person here complaining, I would say there would be a good 7 just going in, playing the game. hell, of those 7, 5 probably dont visit these forums or know they exist

Martin Alvito · May 16, 2010, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Seriously.We are talking about a few thousand people, if that.

You only need to flip the GW2 purchasing decision of a few thousand people to make a decent support staff cost-effective. This assumes that GW2 releases within a year, and that you transition that support staff over at release.

Besides, if GW2 is a hit then they're going to have to train a ton of support staff. They're not going to turn all of the GW2 programmers into GMs (and retain them, anyway). Might as well get on it now, so that the GW2 experience is smooth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

If companies were worried about negative PR from gamers a lot of companies would be out of business.

Mediagenic/Activision (first incarnation)
New World Computing
Acclaim

Game companies regularly go under because they ruin their reputation with subpar/buggy releases and failure to support their products, leading to customers refusing to buy the next round of products. It's at least as common a cause of death as failure to keep finances in order despite continuing to release classic, top-selling games (eg: Infocom, SSI, Black Isle).

fireflyry · May 16, 2010, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

You only need to flip the GW2 purchasing decision of a few thousand people to make a decent support staff cost-effective.

It would depend on the resources required to "flip" those few thousand though.I can't imagine that a fix for these issues would be easy or overly cost-effective in the long run else they would have already been implemented don't you think?

In saying it could be counter-argued that prioritising the smooth release of GW2 over responding to or fixing the current GW issues raised here would also have a positive and cost-effective effect in this regard.

Seems to be the path Anet have currently chosen.

Imagine being in the support team if GW2 is broken on release.

Bit of a catch-22 really.

I'm also of the opinion that 70-90% of the players that have stated they will never buy GW2, for what ever reason, will do exactly that at some stage (if not on the strike of midnight) as it seems to be a reoccurring "cry wolf" here.

Pandora's box · May 16, 2010, 11:37 AM // 11:37

As for the Opp, my 2 cents:
Once GW2 is finished I'd say concentrate on that game if it's for PvP and skill balance. At the same moment make GW1 a 100% PvE game. And continue to add chapters once in a year, unlocking new area's, new skills etc. Many players will be happy to buy them!

Ninja Ninja · May 16, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Actually, yes, it is my opinion. Another piece of my opinion: There is already a thread dedicated to getting an answer to the bot problem in GW1, don't hijack this one.

But, and I will admit I am sounding like a broken record, but that is maybe because I am just saying what Anet themselves said when they started making GW2: They have gone back to scratch and built Guild Wars 2 from the ground up, including the engine. Translation: It is a whole different beast to GW1 and they would have learnt from their mistakes the first time around, including dealing with bots.

The truth is they haven't learned anything if they already had a fix for botting in gw2 they could easily go back and apply it but the truth is they don't, so history is just going to repeat itself.
Botting is a concern for GW2 and its something the OP cares about, the only way anets going to listen is if the news is spread out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Duh, but that doesnt mean they aren't going to go out and buy it anyway. Hell, I didn't even use a trial before purchasing Guild Wars. That isnt mentioning the fact that with what Anet have planned for the game I would say quite a number of those trials will translate to purchases

Your trying to say that disgruntled gw1 buyers are gong to buy gw2 at some point and then with gw buying system they'll be stuck with it but the whole purpose of a trial is to sample the game and it wouldn't take me long to walk into pvp and see the same problems as gw1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

B) It will have the full force of Anet behind it, not just a handful like the current game, it is a bit early to be worrying about the number of botters in GW2.

I really couldn't care less about the full force of anet, the only thing they will be able to do is make random bans on people suspected to be bots or taking an abuse way by taking players words. They have no system in place to detect botters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

But looking at things realistically, how bad was the botting before the SF nerf? How bad was it before EotN came out? I am not trying to swat your concerns away, I am trying to look at the realistic picture.

What? if your point was to show botting is increasing at a large scale rate recently because nothing is being done about it, then success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind

Perhaps my faith is mislaid in that GW2 will be a good game, but getting so close to release (7-10 months to me is close) I would rather they concentrate on making GW2 so this kinda thing wont happen, or has a minimal chance of happening, rather than pull resources to work on a game which, I hate to say it as a GW fan, is on borrowed time.

They wouldn't have to pull resources for anything, like I've been trying to get through to you a step in botting prevention in gw1 can be reused for gw2 so its NOT a waste unless you see a gw2 run by bots as a great game to play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Stellar rebuttal.

I stand by it. You live in hope/faith that the gw1 players will buy gw2, you do know that gw2 is not the only game coming out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Gee I don't know...maybe there's players out there that just play for fun?

Your assuming your definition and motivation to play is the generic norm.Max the titles and HoM....game over....QQ about it.

Not everyone thinks or plays this way.

Your version of play for fun is more like 5 years of inactivity.
If you haven't completed the simple content then what else could you have been doing for 5 years unless you were using gw as a cheap alternative to a msn.

snaek · May 16, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

I'm also of the opinion that 70-90% of the players that have stated they will never buy GW2, for what ever reason, will do exactly that at some stage (if not on the strike of midnight) as it seems to be a reoccurring "cry wolf" here.

yes they will because anet can do something like that and get away with it--but it doesn't necessarily mean that its good or right.

anet wanted to focus on gw2, and in doing so have abandoned gw1. it doesn't matter whether or not this was intentional but gw1 is abandoned and left to die. do you really think that after the release of gw2 they'll send some resources back to gw1? and even if they do, do you really think it'll magically somehow revive the dead game they abandoned years ago? unlikely. so what's a gw1 player left to do? either settle with playing an abandoned game they've become unhappy with the direction its gone in, or move forward on to gw2 like anet is "passively forcing" them to do. its win-win for anet in terms of $$$ with no repercussion for any kind of bad treatment to its playerbase.